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October 2009 
a few words on dawkins and harris.
Posted on Feb 9th, 2007
by 
Siona
Siona
There's been a little discussion on Zaadz, lately, about magical thinking and the dangers of prerational thought. There's been even more writing in the media, by those such as Richard Dawkins and Sam Harris, accusing the belief systems of ancient religions such as Christianity and Islam as being at fault for this apparent explosion of irrationality. I have no problem with agnosticism or atheism, and agree, fully, that there's a dearth of critical thinking in today's world. In fact, I'd go even further. I think that critical thinking is not enough, and that these intellectuals are, in batting around spurious arguments and pointing fingers at religious believers, not allowing themselves to consider the deeper issues.
Because I'd like to suggest that those who'd blame religion are sorely out of touch with the reality of today's world - both within the US and globally.
I'd like to point to the work of Chris Hedges, former Middle East bureau chief for The New York Times and the author of "War Is a Force That Gives Us Meaning."
I don't want to turn to authority, here, but I do want to outline the man's credentials. Unlike Harris or Dawkins, he's no ivory tower philosopher. Hedges spent twenty years as a foreign correspondent to Central America, the Middle East, Africa and the Balkans, and was part of The New York Times team that won the 2002 Pulitzer Prize for the paper's coverage of global terrorism. He received the 2002 Amnesty International Global Award for Human Rights Journalism. I think it's safe to say he knows what he's talking about.
Hedges has published a few pieces - as well as a new book - on what he calls "the rise of Christian Fascism" in America. He outlines, with painful clarity, how the social and economic inequities of the US are leading to desperate people turning to more and more radical belief systems. Unable to place their trust in a government and social system that's abandoned them, the promise of a Christian utopia seems their last hope.
I need to share a few excerpts. (I'd encourage you to read the pieces in their whole, though; the stories are beyond heartbreaking.)
Here's a piece from "The Radical Christian Right is Built on Suburban Despair."
"The engine that drives the radical Christian Right in the United States, the most dangerous mass movement in American history, is not religiosity, but despair. It is a movement built on the growing personal and economic despair of tens of millions of Americans, who watched helplessly as their communities were plunged into poverty by the flight of manufacturing jobs, their families and neighborhoods torn apart by neglect and indifference, and who eventually lost hope that America was a place where they had a future."
He goes on to say,
"The stories believers such as Learned told me of their lives before they found Christ were heart breaking. These chronicles were about terrible pain, severe financial difficulties, struggles with addictions or childhood sexual or physical abuse, profound alienation and often thoughts about suicide. They were chronicles without hope. The real world, the world of facts and dispassionate intellectual inquiry, the world where all events, news and information were not filtered through this comforting ideological prism, the world where they were left out to dry, abandoned by a government hostage to corporations and willing to tolerate obscene corporate profits, betrayed them.
They hated this world. And they willingly walked out on this world for the mythical world offered by these radical preachers, a world of magic, a world where God had a divine plan for them and intervened on a daily basis to protect them and perform miracles in their lives. The rage many expressed to me towards those who challenge this belief system, to those of us who do not accept that everything in the world came into being during a single week 6,000 years ago because it says so in the Bible, was a rage born of fear, the fear of being plunged back into a reality-based world where these magical props would no longer exist, where they would once again be adrift, abandoned and alone."
And this is from "The Rise of Christian Fascism and Its Threat to American Democracy."
"The stories that many in this movement told me over the past two years as I worked on "American Fascists: The Christian Right and the War on America" were stories of this failure -- personal, communal and often economic. This despair [empowers] dangerous dreamers -- those who today bombard the airwaves with an idealistic and religious utopianism that promises, through violent apocalyptic purification, to eradicate the old, sinful world that has failed many Americans.
These Christian utopians promise to replace this internal and external emptiness with a mythical world where time stops and all problems are solved. The mounting despair rippling across the United States, one I witnessed repeatedly as I traveled the country, remains unaddressed by the Democratic Party, which has abandoned the working class, like its Republican counterpart, for massive corporate funding."
Hedges has been in the trenches, so to speak. He understands that the problem is not mythical or magical thinking, but the desperation that drives it. In the language of Sprial Dynamics, it's not blue or green or red that's so unhealthy, but the orange opportunism that would turn these lower value systems to its advantage, for exploitation and the promise of greater wealth, regardless of the cost to others.
It's for this reason that I don't believe finger-pointing at religion will do much to help, and, in fact, will even worsen matters. It's for this reason that I think it's important to understand why people adopt such systems, why they're pushed to that need to believe, and to then do what we can to alleviating those conditions that lead to despair. I don't think an inquiry-based spiritual practice is going to help much of rural America. I do think, though, that having a community and a country and a life that they can once again believe in, might.
And so this is why I'm on Zaadz. This is why I believe in raising awareness about corporations run rampant, and in exposing, as much as I can, the systemic injustices in the world, and the way in which we're all connected. This is why I want to encourage people to engage in their communities and relationships and neighborhoods and micro-economies around the country, and to realize, most importantly, that the way we live our lives has an impact on others all over the world.
Because when it comes down to it, we are all in this together, and unless we can all be given a future, we all may not have one.
Access: PublicTagged with: religion, fundamentalism, sam harris, richard dawkins, belief, magic, mythical, reason, rationality, america, justice, right, christianity
Wow, Siona! I love the unity in this… the awareness and eye-opening pieces that you shared…. I'll have to come back to this and read it again to fully absorb all it has to offer… much like reading the other conversations that have been going on…. I feel like a sponge right now… and this post is rich with loving awareness! {deepest bows}
Thanks for this post…As tempting as it always is to blame someone else for this situation that we find ourselve in, in reality our hope lies in visioning what we love, working for what we love, helping others to work for what they love, and help each other try to get beyond our hate, fear, anger, and dispare. ( in appreciation)
Thank you Siona, this is a really important perspective, i definately have more to absorb as MsCapriKell says. Great food for thought..!! there's alot of logic in this, as to “why” religion is holding so tightly. Despair. Fear… hold on tight…. fight with all your might.
I must let this thought settle. Great addition to all thats been posted here lately. :)
130 to 100 years ago in America, the ancestors of the people who are today falling under the spell of the Christian Eschatologists were tuned into the growing realization that the whole system in this country had become dominated by what were then called the Monopoly Trusts, the capitalists who worshipped profit at any cost (the costs, of course, to be born by other people, by the land, by the web of life). If we study what happened in the U.S. between 1900 and 1920 we can see the establishment of systems to co-opt this threat to the egoistic hegemony of those who “think they are in control” - chief among them, perhaps, public education based on the Prussian and Indian lower-caste models, the so-called “Income Tax,” and the so-called Federal Reserve Banking System. A similar burst of terrified suppression followed the flowering of the Hippy Movement in the 60's, leading to the wide-spread fear among so many to foolishly entertain the notion that we don't need experts to guide us in every aspect of how we see ourselves and plan our lives. What has happened to religion follows the dominator / social engineering model. It is made to seem that we need mediators between ourselves and god, that we are incapable of approaching the truth of what we are without external guidance, when exactly the opposite is the case. ONLY we can find the truth of our inner nature for ourselves - and any trustworthy guide or teacher will be very explicit and specific about this.
The system that underpins concensus reality has entered into the crisis that social critics in the last century saw coming and characterized as “The Crisis of Capitalism.” Actually, however, IMO, this rapidly escalating crisis is the ultimate crisis of the human ego. All of the human institutions worldwide, and certainly all of the established religions, have come under the sway of people completely obsessed by a false idea of who they are and determined to do whatever is necessary to maintain control and the illusion of a stable, Cartesian, “normal,” unchanging world. These efforts are, again IMO, being driven to extremities by the at least subconscious perceptions of the dominators that there is a flowering of human awakening underfoot. The only commodity that institutional leaders, and particularly those striving to keep people from questioning the truth about their divine nature, have to sell is fear. If I am afraid enough about an afterlife of limitless suffering, about the loss of my support network in heaven due to the damnation of my loved ones, about being unacceptable in the sight of my creator, about the threat represented by anyone I perceive as “other,” then I will follow anything that appears to hold out a scintilla of hope, even if what I'm called to is clearly against my own interests, and those of my children, neighbors, wife, country, whatever.
This is where many of our compatriots are headed now. It's not out of any fault of their own. They are simply deluded, as are we all when we look at the world from a perspective that makes anyone seem wrong, threatening or evil. This is the play of Lila, and a perfect reflection of the mass states of consciousness of humanity as we get ready to awaken from the fever-dream of the ego, apparently so necessary for our evolution beyond it. Let's just wake up.
Wow, Bruce! Very powerful followup! I like what you stated, “It is made to seem that we need mediators between ourselves and god, that we are incapable of approaching the truth of what we are without external guidance, when exactly the opposite is the case. ONLY we can find the truth of our inner nature for ourselves - and any trustworthy guide or teacher will be very explicit and specific about this.” I had JUST used this same line of thought, yesterday, in conversation with someone that I've been counseling…. kinda nice to get a confirmation/affirmation on this personal truth.
I am just finishing reading the End of Faith - that's the only part of the discussion I have any knowlege of at this point - that and my own beliefs. What I found most interesting was the resilience of beliefs and his suggestion that rather than being a new or expanding phenomenon, the propensity to adhere to a belief and not have it shaken loose even when confronted with “the truth” is as old as time. Educator Howard Gardner wrote about this in terms of learning - MIT Ph.D.s who struggled to replace the beliefs they held in childhood with their learned scientific evidence . We should certainly be asking what's so desperately missing for people in this country that certain dogmatic religions are thriving, but I found myself questioning the idea that you could summarize it by economic status. Harris confronts this idea also in his focus on Islam, and the high level of wealth and education among believers. I also thought it was interesting that he - intentionally? - turns the evangelical battle cry “truth not tolerance” back at religion. Lots of other thoughts…look foward to reading more of Siona's blogs and the articulate folks who can keep up with her brilliant mind…
Bruce, Not sure I agree with you regardng a crisis of “human ego” in regards to capitalism.
From my personal experience, because of the institutional system of capitalism which extends into our culture and into our set behaviors/reality/illusion its really not so much about the ego as much as a conflict with that system. Anyone of us can arise out of capitalism and we do. A clear example is “Zaadz” and other organizations that are growing out of the need to address other inherent human values and needs.
We rebel in our own ways against capitalism. People are not machines, yet the system of capitalism holds that we have to be in order to rise with the “market” and dismisses any ethical concerns of the human being. See Gilles-Deleuze ”Capitalism and Schizophrenia”.
This also correlates with the heavy interest in Eastern philosophies and religion in the last 35 years.
Siona, you bring up a good point in regards to the economics of belief systems and how that is shaped by social classes. Because of this specific reason, public education is my solution to a set of number of social problems but I'm not going to go there here.
Thanks so much for this posting - very cool thinkign people. Siona, you and I have only begun to share ideas of the role of personal responsibility in the evolution of humankind. Let me use this wonderful conversation to share a bit more about what I have been thinking after reading your wonderful blog. It was a bit too long and I didn’t want to hijack this string so if anyone is interested in these ramblings - check out my blog http://andreihedstrom.zaadz.com/blog/2007/2/in_response_to_sionas_awesome_post
Klare, I guess from my perspective, Capitalism is nothing more than people and their beliefs. The “system” as such amounts to the observed rules and conventions based on these. Capitalists believe they own the show, and are in control. They have beaucoup annecdotal evidence to prove that there is a clear basis for this, but IMO it's largely a halucination, open to question, as evidence that doesn't fit frame of their prejudices and beliefs is filtered out. As for “us,” I'm reminded of the flea in the jar metaphor, where if you put a flea in a jar and screw the lid on, the flea will eventually stop jumping to the height of the lid to avoid smashing into the lid over and over. Then you can take the lid off, and the flea will never jump higher than where the lid was before. In the same way, the apparent losers in the current war between the controllers and the controlled are seeing a situation conditioned to appear insoluable in any humane, vibrant and juicily hopeful way.
As long as our identity is invested in resisting the inhumane system, we are stuck in repetitive patterns of its “reality,” giving our power away to something outside ourselves. Perhaps if we can sink into the present moment and allow it to act directly through us without the mediation of our opinions and ideas of who we are in all this, these direct, intuitive actions will be the change(s) we look for. I think we do arise out of the system, but only by meeting the apparent problems on another level that that in which they were conjured up.
in some ways we can say capitalism perpetuates these belief systems of consumer fetishism and “hungry ghosts” thus not allowing for any investment towards the inner path. it's not so much about the people and beliefs. people and beliefs change, but working with a system that is in conflict with what people need is a different story. take for example what happened in tienneman square. if the students didn't protest against the communist elite china would not have opened up its trade and economic policies allowing a free market thus giving more opportunities for those who were in great poverty. anyways, i think it is a mistake to just blame the “human ego” there are other things at play. we can't just say we all just need to meditate more and work on ourselves to start the change process, sure the change begins with self, but there are other causes and conditions at play and these things need more investigation as well.
Well, I could say a lot on this theme/topic, but maybe I'll only say:
When they lose their sense of awe,
people turn to religion.
(another beautiful translation of Tao Te Ching:)
when wonder goes,
religion comes in
p.s. I'm just reading now, The Short History of Myth, by Karen Armstrong. I recommend it, and I think it offers insights to why people are hungry for something that addresses their deepest fears. (And it's worth reading for its own sake too.)
Quoting Klare: “in some ways we can say capitalism perpetuates these belief systems of consumer fetishism and “hungry ghosts” thus not allowing for any investment towards the inner path.”
Show me “capitalism” doing anything. It is people who do these things. Acting either out of the stillness that they ARE (generally NOT) or out of their delusions about who they think they are and about the nature of the world they seem to be in. Also, no thing can ever cut us off from our intimate connection to the shining awareness we are at core, or prevent our unfolding. To argue causes about political action can seem persuasive until you see deeper, see that the “reason” that anything occurs is the interconnectedness with All That Is (not to quibble whether anything positive has come about in the operation of a so-called Free Market(R) in the “Peoples' Republic”). I would suggest as well that any action taken out of the reactivity of negative emotions, no matter how well-intentioned on the surface, only tends to add to the difficulty, confusion and damage to living systems.
And I'm not “blaming” the human ego, which literally doen't exist in the first place when you get silent and look. I'm stating my truth, that no one can tolerate taking invasive action against anyone else, action which harms the perpetrator first and most deeply, unless action out of delusion. We can, and will, take steps to prevent the deluded from harming our brothers and sisters and the web of life, but it must be done without “making them into enemies.” And to do it, we must first enter deeply into the Now.
This is The Work, hardly navel-gazing. Namaste.
hank you, all, for your thoughtful and generous responses. I'm so deeply grateful.
And Bruce? Klare? You're both right. Global capitalism is so pervasive in today's world that it's nearly impossible to 'think' - or even feel, or intuit - our way out. The blending of Eastern philosophies into the West, from Western Buddhism to writers such as Tolle, is a phenomenon of the globalization resulting from capitalism's inexorable push to progress. Integral theory, the fact we conceive of ourselves as autonomous, independent individuals, and the veneration of freedom as an ultimate value … all these things cannot be divorced from the world into which we were born, and this world, again, is capitalistic to the core. To my mind, it's as naive to think we can resist capitalism as it is to think we can resist the ego.
In any case, I think you both make important points. Yes, it's easy for wealthy Westerners to take up Tolle's “be here now” entreaty and use that as an excuse to continue living lives that, again, contribute to injustice and inequity. And I'm concerned that part of the appeal of these “Buddhist” approaches is that they allow certain people to tolerate capitalism by finding inner peace, thus giving them the ability to continue working in and contributing to an unsustainable society … without the balm of “meaning,” they'd have broken down and rebelled long ago. In the same breath, however, I do think that pointing fingers at “the system” can be an easy way to keep from facing the role of one's own hungry ego in creating it.
I obviously don't have any answers. I know I tend to preach radical acceptance; I know I try to look for that part of myself that willingly perpetuates (or even the part that COULD do so!) the problems I see in the world, and to try to love and accept and forgive that part, in hopes that it will allow me to be more understanding of those who's actions I don't agree with. But I don't know that this is enough. I don't know.
But thank you, again, all, for your thoughts. MsCapriKell and Steve and Searching; I'm glad this provided food for thought. Andrei? Your follow-up is wonderful. Diane? Well, what can I say but that I love and miss you? And dear Evelyn … this is a projection, I know, but I always see myself in your words.
“I've heard people say that they cling to their painful thoughts because they're afraid that without them they wouldn't be activists for peace. “If I felt completely peaceful,” they say, “why would I bother taking action at all?” My answer is “Because that's what love does.” To think we need sadness or outrage to motivate us to do what's right is insane. As if the clearer and happier you get, the less kind you become. As if when someone finds freedom, she just sits around all day with drool running down her chin. My experience is the opposite. Love is action. It's clear, it's kind, it's effortless, and it's irrestible.” - Byron Katie, One Thousand Names for Joy (btw, this is my favorite book for 2007, and yeah, I know it's only February so that means I look forward to any book that would make this statement wrong, that'd be a helluva book)
Just happened to be reading Bryon Katie's book today at the cafe in my neighborhood for my own sake because I was having an inner argument with reality (not any transcendent reality - when I say reality, I mean just that - just the way things are in life)…and thought this quote was apropos above.
To act from this clear, kind, effortless, irrestible space that sees no problems out there - that's the end of strife, war, intolerance, violence, ignorance, suffering. That's the complete engagement with the world as it is.
“Yes, it's easy for wealthy Westerners to take up Tolle's “be here now” entreaty and use that as an excuse to continue living lives that, again, contribute to injustice and inequity.”
I haven't seen too many people actually be here now - I think I could count them on two hands - and I meet many people every day.
Only in the present is right action possible is what Tolle is saying over and over. Most people are wasting energy living in their heads playing what-if loops and games about how the past should have been or the future should be, rather than doing the next most obvious step calling for action right in front of them. That's where engagement with the world happens. Where else could it? Here, here, here, here, here, here, here,….ad finitum.
Checking out of the world, dropping out of the world, hmmm, I'm not sure it's really an option seeing as we are the world, and in the world. People may think they can escape for a while and even use mantras like 'be here now' to justify whatever they want, but I'm not so worried since no one truly wants to run away from themselves forever.
Evelyn? Yes .
love is a place
& through this place of
love move
(with brightness of peace)
all places
yes is a world
& in this world of
yes live
(skilfully curled)
all worlds
- e.e. cummings
That.
To my mind, it's as naive to think we can resist capitalism as it is to think we can resist the ego.
Siona, yes I see your point here, thus my point about individual's conflict with capitalism and how that perpetuates creativity in different ways and working with what already is deeply rooted rather than accepting capitalism's dark shadows. The ego is workable.
Bruce, not sure we are speaking to the same topic, but I know where you are coming from.
And I'm easily disputed anyways by my use of language. It often gets people stirred up.
Unfortunately to my own downfall in trying to add to the discussion or expand upon it.
not into arguing about the free market. or quibbling. i'm limited by my knowledge of that field anyways.
Siona, the e.e.cummings is sublime. definitely not making Klare wrong, just moving toward that place where we can see together that the situation is as it is - “not a hair out of place” - so that from that place we can make a spontaneous movement. Together.
Klare, thanks for speaking your truth. None of us “knows” what's going on, in the least. I just think it MAY help to try to mirror to each other what we're seeing, so that we can arrive together on the same page. Something each of us does, anyway, each time we surrender in our hearts to just what is.
This is a great read. And so true…As Karl Marx said, “Religion is the opium of the poor.”